These ones? Those ones?

Eric writes:
I was wondering if it is grammatically incorrect to use "these ones" or "those ones" when answering someone who just asked me a question like.. "which ones are done?" or "which of those still need to be wrapped?" It seems to me that if it's ok to say "this one" or "that one" that "these ones" and "those ones" would also be acceptable. I notice I use them more often when I am pointing at something and want to be very specific.

The guys at work say that it is incorrect usage of grammar. Are they right?

They're right, but I don't think I can offer a clear explanation.

"These" is the plural of "this" and "those" is the plural of "that." It's perfectly OK to say "This one is mine; that one is yours."

But when we go to the plural, the "ones" is understood: "These are mine; those are yours."

Why this inconsistent usage? I wish I knew. English is full of rules, and half of them are broken.

Afterthought: I've just realized that the problem is with the number. You can say "This one," and "These two." If the number is uncertain, you can use "ones" in certain ways:

"Bring me four potatoes."
"Which ones?" [particular potatoes from a larger group]
"Those four in the bowl."
"These four?"
"No, they're too small. Try the ones in the cupboard." [the uncertain number of potatoes in the cupboard]
"Are these OK?" [we know how many are wanted]
"Those are perfect."

Comments

[melissa]

quick question... Instead of using one as a plural (ones), why don't we use the acutal noun we are describing.. like

"bring me the four potatoes"

"which potatoes?"

"those four in the bowl" so on and so forth?

Thanks
Melissa

[Paula]

Like these is sufficient with a point to the subject matter. Or, as stated above, "Like these four or five"
"Like these ones" is definitely wrong.

[Paula]

We love 'em for being so lovin ("like these ... ones") grrrrrrrrr excuse me, I cringe at "ones"

A colloquialism is an expression not used in formal speech, writing or paralinguism. Colloquialisms can include words (such as "y'all", "gonna", "deadly" or "grouty"), phrases (such as "ain't nothin'" and "dead as a doornail"), or sometimes even an entire aphorism ("There's more than one way to skin a cat"). Dictionaries often display colloquial words and phrases with the abbreviation colloq.

I don't see "ones" as a colloquialism. Ones is not in the dictionary. I see "ones" as 'murdering the English language'. HERE'S where we're going with that one........

"Words that have a formal meaning may also have a colloquial meaning that, while technically incorrect, is recognizable due to common usage."

People just don't see the beauty of the English language...when used properly. eg. "My Fair Lady"

[Paula]

You don't pluralize "one" and you don't pluralize "two" or "three". These over here or those over there, but not "these ones" or "those ones". Or these three or those four. Please respond if you understand...or not.

[Crof]

Paula, you're generally right, but words like "one" and "two" can (rarely) be pluralized: The guests arrived in twos and threes. (I'd prefer "couples and threesomes," but that would imply relationships rather than random arrivals.)

And a prosecutor can safely say: "These three miscreants deliberately planned the robbery. Those two wretches beside them were to carry it out."

And of course when we're completely disorganized, we're at sixes and sevens!

[Hoofin.wordpress.com]

Please, please. "One" can be pluralized along with most all the nouns in modern English, and it has been for hundreds of years.

Look no further than the King James Version of the Bible:

Matthew 10:42 "and whoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup . . ."

Mark 9:42 "and whosoever shall offend one of these little ones . . ."

This contrived controversy about "ones" is the kind of game played by those [ones] who want to act like [that is, as if] they are very educated devotees of English. But in reality, haven't read very much at all.

They just know what the word games are. (Example: "For whom it is" rather than "who it is for".) They parrot so-called grammar rules, 80% of them made up in the last 150 years, that they memorize like the sales pitch of a snake-oil salesmen.

We have these types running all over Japan, "teaching" English. One [!} wonders how much reading they've ever done along a way, whether it be novels, anthologies, legal opinions or what have you.

[Paradise Place]

These ones and those ones. I actually cringe when I hear someone use them together. To me it's redundant. You can say these peaches or those peaches or I choose this one or that one...

[Ben Gramkowski]

This is just a possibility; but might it not have anything to do with the much-hated "ones" and rather with the the fact that the "these" or "those" in the sentence is a plural pronoun? When we say "That one," "that" is an adjective, indicating which one, but there are no plural adjectives (to my knowledge, limited as it is), so we cannot use "those" in the same manner, thus making it grammatically incorrect. You would be, in saying "those ones," using two pronouns both referring to the same things, so the phrase is redundant.

[Wanda]

I agree with Ben on 11/15/11. It's that simple. As for Hoofin's example from King James, it is antiquated; but the phrase "little ones" is one we still use to refer to young children. The operative difference from the germaine discussion is the word "little" between "these" and "ones". Calling people knowledgeable of the "rules" or, more accurately, practices of English "snake-oil salesmen" is arrogant, to say the least. One cannot teach any subject if one doesn't comply with established rules or acceptable practices, especially to speakers of other languages. Usage (practice) varies from field to field: religion, law, medicine, business, etc. Hoofin obviously understands this and enjoys flaunting his/her education just like the rest of us (smile).

[A Facebook User]

Now, I've got a problem with this. In my line of work we handle innumerable doors, drawers and drawer faces. So when a fellow employee asks me, "Which ones should I bring over?" I don't want to tell him, "those forty" or "those fifty" because that's just plain silly. I'm going to reply to his pronoun 'ones' with my own pronoun in the sentence, "Those ones."

[Joe Shmoe]

Im here to prove you all wrong. If you were to refer to a group of "ones" it is correct. If you were playing cards and the deck had a card with the value of one, and winning the game will get you three dollar bills. And your hand was all ones. You could say "I'm definitely gonna lose I have all these ones." Then your friend could reply "Those ones are gonna cost you these ones" Those would be in reference to the cards with a value of one. These would be in reference to the the dollar bills. I know you could say it better many different ways. Such as leaving out these and those but it proves it can work when a group of ones are the subject. You could even say "Your ones" tell me I'm wrong.